Meeting-15.01.2011

Minutes from Meeting about BibleTime

Convened at 2011-01-15 16:52:30.268367 by "superfly" in #bibletime on freenode

Minutes

[16:52:30] STARTED (superfly)
[16:52:43] TOPIC: Releases (superfly)
[17:28:42] AGREED: Look at possibly implementing floating docks, as per KDevelop (superfly)
[17:29:25] AGREED: Think about user interface modifications to take mobile and netbook screens into account (superfly)
[18:13:49] ENDED (superfly)

Present

• superfly
• GHellings
• jotik
• _mg_
• gholmlund

Raw Log

[16:52:30] <superfly> iTwinkle: start meeting about BibleTime
[16:52:30] * iTwinkle gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[16:52:43] <superfly> iTwinkle: topic Releases
[16:52:43] <iTwinkle> Current Topic: Releases
[16:53:31] <gholmlund> http://devel.bibletime.info/wiki/Release_Schedules/2.9
[16:59:28] <superfly> jotik: if we want to release a 3.0, we need to include some fairly big features from a user's perspective
[17:01:01] <_mg_> GHellings: I (hopefully) found a way to configure macports to specify the target SDK 10.5. Rebuilding clucene now.
[17:01:18] <_mg_> GHellings: did you say clucene is causing the problems?
[17:01:44] <GHellings> According to the crash report that is the library with the problems
[17:02:01] <_mg_> cool
[17:02:13] <_mg_> I'm about to drop from mumble, it's useless for me.
[17:02:19] <GHellings> Ok
[17:05:38] <_mg_> GHellings: building new release
[17:05:50] <GHellings> Ok, I'm also trying to build it directly myself
[17:06:02] <_mg_> GHellings: well I'm sure this will work :D
[17:06:09] <GHellings> Yay!
[17:06:20] <_mg_> I mean building it directly
[17:06:25] <GHellings> Oh. :D
[17:09:19] <superfly> jotik: in OpenLP we have a text file on the site which OpenLP reads, nothing very complicated
[17:09:45] <_mg_> sorry, I can't stand it any longer.
[17:09:51] <superfly> jotik: also Debian packagers don't like update-checks, and tend to disable them
[17:10:03] <_mg_> I don't think it needs to be an auto-update, but at least a notification
[17:10:09] <_mg_> XML file on the server?
[17:10:26] <GHellings> XML or even auto-generated the way SWORD's download page is
[17:11:14] <superfly> do we really need a whole XML file, when just a text file will do?
[17:11:43] <_mg_> superfly: It needs to be structured in some way. Do you talk about YAML?
[17:12:17] <superfly> _mg_: a one-line text file with the version number in it is all you need
[17:12:25] <superfly> what "structure" do you need?
[17:12:30] <GHellings> Two lines for version and URL
[17:12:52] <_mg_> superfly: agreed, if you don't need history information, that's enough
[17:13:09] <_mg_> but if you want to target multiple systems, you need more structure
[17:13:35] <GHellings> Not if it is auto-generated and knows what to look for
[17:13:45] <GHellings> bibletime.info/versioncheck?client=mac
[17:13:47] <GHellings> or so on
[17:13:55] <superfly> _mg_: my OpenLP project is on Windows, Linux, OS X, BSD, and we only use 1 file
[17:14:05] <superfly> so I don't see the need for anything more complicated than that
[17:14:36] <_mg_> ok!
[17:14:47] <_mg_> GHellings: uploading...
[17:15:01] <GHellings> Ok, I'm refraining from actually packaging and installing. :D
[17:15:04] <superfly> I mean, sure you can add extra stuff into the file, but I'm not sure it's really needed
[17:15:06] <GHellings> That way I can use yours
[17:15:45] <_mg_> GHellings: that is not a problem
[17:15:45] <GHellings> superfly: Especially with the way C++ packages and installers, etc, it's very possible for us to be on 2.8 in Linux but 2.8-4 on Mac (like we are right now)
[17:16:00] <_mg_> GHellings: the error will still be there on my package, I believe
[17:16:09] <_mg_> s/will/would/
[17:16:35] <superfly> jotik: I have an N900
[17:17:10] <_mg_> GHellings: it's up
[17:17:18] <GHellings> Ok, running upstairs now
[17:17:29] <superfly> yes, but OpenLP is Python... I cross-compiled Quassel too, so I figure it shouldn't be too difficult to get BT compiled
[17:19:44] <superfly> http://blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za/archive/2010/11/07/first-impressions-nokia-n900
[17:20:04] <superfly> I was just about to say that
[17:20:07] <superfly> Interface changes
[17:23:40] <superfly> jotik, GHellings: if you look at the following screenshot, you'll see there are buttons down the side that hide and show the dock windows: http://www.kdevelop.org/graphics/screenshots/4.0/Kdevelop_cpp_codetooltip.png
[17:25:04] <GHellings> _mg_: Now the error is that my /usr/lib/libcurl.dylib is 5.0.0 but the binary requires 6.0.0 or higher
[17:25:23] <GHellings> But that's progress!
[17:25:42] <superfly> gholmlund: ^^
[17:25:43] <_mg_> good.
[17:26:27] <_mg_> GHellings: not sure how to solve this. curl is from macos itself.
[17:27:07] <GHellings> It is, but you should be able to configure CMake to use the 10.5SDK which would compile against my version
[17:27:18] <GHellings> But that might be more difficult
[17:27:39] <GHellings> At that point, you might want to use the XCode generator and manually switch it from 10.6 to 10.5 and build there
[17:28:10] <GHellings> jotik: I was mentioning my problems with Greek/Hebrew UTF-8 font coverage in Linux for the Wycliffe Bible Translator modules I've been working with
[17:28:27] <jotik> Ok.
[17:28:42] <superfly> iTwinkle: Agreed Look at possibly implementing floating docks, as per KDevelop
[17:28:42] <iTwinkle> Agreed: Look at possibly implementing floating docks, as per KDevelop
[17:29:02] <GHellings> Qt keeps telling BT to use Arial font, even when I didn't have Arial installed (I do now) and whatever font was being used instead did not have coverage of the UTF-8 combining diacritics for Greek/Hebrew text
[17:29:14] <jotik> GHellings: You could try these fonts: http://www.gnu.org/software/freefont/
[17:29:16] <superfly> iTwinkle: agreed: Think about user interface modifications to take mobile and netbook screens into account
[17:29:16] <iTwinkle> superfly: *blink*
[17:29:17] <GHellings> If I use real Arial or a good Unicode font, everything works great
[17:29:25] <superfly> iTwinkle: agreed Think about user interface modifications to take mobile and netbook screens into account
[17:29:25] <iTwinkle> Agreed: Think about user interface modifications to take mobile and netbook screens into account
[17:30:03] <gholmlund> What do you mean by "floating docks". In kdevelop they have tabs you can click and open the dock. Is this what you mean?
[17:30:12] <superfly> yes
[17:30:29] <GHellings> jotik: The problem isn't that I don't have fonts that do the work, the problem is Qt defaults to using a poor font choice
[17:30:45] <jotik> I think it uses a system font.
[17:30:57] <jotik> At least when under KDE
[17:31:07] <GHellings> It seems to default to a sans-serif that only has basic latin/greek/hebrew and lacks the extended versions
[17:31:26] <GHellings> But if I configure a custom font for my modules the characters appear properly
[17:33:03] * jotik is afk for some minutes
[17:33:04] <_mg_> GHellings: I think I found it.
[17:33:15] <_mg_> you need to set an environment variable: MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET
[17:33:32] <GHellings> _mg_: Sounds about right.
[17:33:55] <GHellings> I have some samples of how to setup the system in the SWORD cmake files so it can target iPhone
[17:35:27] <GHellings> _mg_: Have you considered putting BT into the Mac App Store when we get it all built out?
[17:35:36] <superfly> ah, it looks like the server's max bandwidth is something like 10 K/s, I'll see if I can adjust that higher
[17:36:48] <superfly> restarting the server...
[17:37:11] <_mg_> GHellings: well it costs $99 per year and they don't accept the GPL.... :((
[17:37:25] <GHellings> They don't? How so?
[17:37:41] <GHellings> Or maybe "Why so?"
[17:37:51] <_mg_> GHellings: because they want to be the exclusive distribution channel
[17:38:14] <GHellings> "underscore milligrams underscore entered channel"
[17:38:25] <jotik> Maybe we should release an exclusive non-GPL version for the app store which would be identical to the GPL one? :D
[17:39:50] <superfly> haha, nice one jotik
[17:40:19] <GHellings> jotik: We'd have to clear that with the larger SWORD world, wouldn't we?
[17:40:39] <GHellings> I believe they're the only GPL-only library we use, correct?
[17:40:44] <jotik> ah yes! bummer! Qt, clucene etc also.
[17:40:54] <GHellings> Qt is LGPL so we're good
[17:41:05] <superfly> http://www.9to5mac.com/46505/vlc-for-ios-removed-from-the-app-store
[17:41:52] <jotik> Apple is evil.
[17:42:19] <_mg_> jotik: I agree!
[17:42:24] <GHellings> Maybe, but they're also popular and one of our targetted platforms!
[17:42:42] <_mg_> GHellings: agreed too!
[17:43:02] <_mg_> GHellings: that's why I'm currently rebuilding again, just for you :D
[17:43:13] <jotik> We should make write a jailbreaker for BibleTime! :D
[17:43:38] <GHellings> jotik: You're starting to scare me. ;)
[17:47:26] <superfly> Unity
[17:47:38] <superfly> Yes
[17:48:11] <superfly> I stick to KDE :-)
[17:48:33] <GHellings> I stick to "Hey, look, it installed something!"
[17:48:34] * jotik too. Not that I use KDE-specific features a lot, but still.
[17:50:05] <superfly> Just had a thought, related to John A Sullivan III's bookmarks query... what about a sync manager of a sort... like you specify a directory where those sorts of things should be saved, so that you can use something like Dropbox or SpiderOak to sync your personal data
[17:50:26] <superfly> Firefox/Rekonq
[17:50:33] <superfly> but mostly Firefox
[17:52:25] <superfly> Firefox is basically a browser written in XML and JavaScript
[17:53:00] <GHellings> And the XUL is an extra layer of complexity to plugins that I don't really care to master. :D
[17:53:36] <_mg_> GHellings: uploading...
[17:54:48] <GHellings> Ok, this time I'll give it 5 minutes, since last time it took a little while for the servers to realize they had a full file
[17:55:35] <_mg_> GHellings: they dropped the SQL storage from HTML5, did you see that?
[17:55:44] <GHellings> Who? Chrome?
[17:55:47] <_mg_> now it's IndexedDB
[17:56:08] <GHellings> Chrome or W3C?
[17:56:12] <_mg_> the WhatWG I guess, those who develop HTML5
[17:56:40] <GHellings> I heard something about that. It's unlikely Chrome will drop it, since it claims to have built-in support for Google Gears
[17:57:00] <_mg_> GHellings: it's up.
[18:00:17] <superfly> jotik: Redmine is pretty good
[18:00:50] <superfly> We use Redmine on support.openlp.org
[18:01:12] <superfly> we use JIRA at work, and I can't say I'm a fan
[18:03:07] <GHellings> We use it at work (SWORD uses it, and Wycliffe uses it) - it's my favorite so far
[18:03:24] <GHellings> _mg_: Same libcurl error. :(
[18:04:02] <superfly> I'm not a fan of Trac either
[18:04:22] <GHellings> Trac is great if you need strong integration with SVN
[18:08:23] <_mg_> GHellings: see my commit. Maybe you find a better solution?
[18:08:48] <GHellings> _mg_: Any solution I find will be based in 10.5. Maybe I should just build one for 10.5 and yours will be for 10.6?
[18:09:09] <_mg_> the 10.5 one will also run on 10.6
[18:09:52] <_mg_> just tell me how I have to build so that it works for you too.
[18:10:12] <GHellings> If I knew that, we'd have figured this out weeks ago. :-/
[18:12:32] <GHellings> We have ignition!
[18:12:40] <GHellings> Liftoff!
[18:13:11] <superfly> Let's have an agenda for the next meeting ;-)
[18:13:16] <GHellings> ^
[18:13:43] <_mg_> GHellings: next attempt on rebuilding..
[18:13:49] <superfly> iTwinkle: end meeting